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More on Baber Child-napping

July 2, 2009 permalink

Here is more on the abduction of two children by school principal Stephen Baber, one post from the father Attila L Vinczer, the other from John Dunn. The incident took place on December 4, 2008. The police are striking back at the father for the video posted by Canada Court Watch.



Attila L. Vinczer Says:

June 12th, 2009 at 8:07 am

I for one am not that takes anything over the head, not even once!

My children were kidnapped by a school principal for two hours while CAS/CPS attempted to take my children from me on December 4, 2008!!!

On December 4, 2008 my children were unlawfully detained by the school principal Mr. Stephen Baber at the mere phone call of a CAS/CPS worker who later extorted a signature from me. Mr. Jim Maloney and his immediate supervisor Ms. Sandy Griffiths would not release my children back to me unless I signed an agreement which was the slippery slope to my ex wife effecting having a Court Ordered custody arrangement changed.

She (ex wife) may have been attempting to cause me grief not realizing the HUGE trouble it would cause, especially for the children who were locked in the principals office for nearly two hours under lock and key such that one child urinated and defecated in his pants while the other was crying for his daddy!!!

Yes this happened right here in Canada last year just before Christmas!

Here is a link to a video interview of the boys and myself about this tragic occurrence.

I managed to keep my children after two hours of struggling with CAS/CPS. I went to the police who did not even do a single thing to assure the safety of my children and to reunite them with their lawful custodial father!

Currently there is a criminal investigation by the local police and charges could be laid against all those who participated to violate my children’s rights, my rights the Criminal Code of Canada and the Canadian Charter of Rights which forbids anyone to do what this foolish principal and the Child Protection workers did!


Source: Glenn Sacks

Thursday, July 02, 2009

Police Investigating CAS and School

The following letter is a follow up letter from the parent involved to the story whereas a couple of children were allegedly locked in a principals office at the request of a CAS worker in order for the worker to get a document signed by a parent.

Hello everyone:

Over the last two days my children and I have been interviewed at the police station in Newmarket. On Tuesday my two children were interviewed each for about 20 minutes by a female officers who I was told was specially trained in interviewing children. Yesterday I was interviewed by Detective Orourke, badge number 396, for about an hour and a half.

All of us were interviewed while being recorded by video and audio devices. In addition, a stenographer was present behind a one way darkened window who typed in addition to the audio.

I gave my accounting as best as I could from memory of which I believe I gave a good detailed accounting. I was reminded of the charges of mischief, misleading justice and investigation should I be found to be lying and that the very video could be used against me should that be the case. I was also told that should I change my statement it would be unusable.

I could not understand the relevance about the detective inquiring about the video that is up on Canada Court Watch. It has nothing to do with a man who assaulted, kidnapped, unlawfully detained and locked my children in a room and refused to allow my children to leave with me after school! I asked if I did anything wrong by having the video on the Internet to which Detective Orourke told me it was not illegal nor immoral to do so.

Detective Orourke has told me that all the school staff have been interviewed and all the CAS staff that were involved in the ordering of my children being held at school. I mentioned in my interview that even Mr. Patrick Lake, the Executive Director of the York Region Children's Aid Society felt that what the Principal Stephen Baber did was wrong! While at the Annual General Meeting of CAS another senior CAS employee said that leaving the children without an adult in the room was wrong.

Detective Orourke told me that the Crown Attorney will be reviewing all the testimonies and will determine consistency and will determine if there has been a criminal act committed and that I will be contacted in 2-3 weeks. That would mean by July 14-21 we should know how this matter will be moving forward.

I believe there is an abundance of evidence that a crime has been committed by Stephen Baber and even CAS staff. Should the authorities not lay charges, I will lay them and push this matter forward! I will not allow this incident to be swept under the carpet!!!

Further, as I may have mentioned, a civil lawsuit is in the midst of being launched against Principal Baber seeking damages in an amount yet to be determined for each of my children and myself. I am not expecting to be awarded much money for damages, nor is this lawsuit driven by greed for cash. The lawsuit is driven by the need to bring this principle before the courts and hold him accountable for his ill actions and to send a VERY STRONG message that should school staff violate the rights of children and or parents, they will be held accountable!!!

I will be sending copies of relevant material to as many trustees and other school officials as I can including the video clip on Court Watch. In addition to that, a press release will be issued I think at the time of launching the Civil Lawsuit within the next week or two.


Source: fostercarenews for July 2, 2009

Addendum: Police have not prosecuted the school principal and refuse to give a copy of their interview to the father.



York Regional Police now claim to be qualified to determine what is in the best interests of children

(October 29, 2009) Police officers are sworn to uphold the law and to protect the citizens in the communities they serve by enforcing the law. Yet, it seems that the York Regional Police have gone even further and now feel that they have the qualifications and authority to determine the best interest of children ahead of parents. This is a privilege that only a court of competent jurisdiction can determine after a fair and impartial hearing. In a recent letter to a York Region parent, the York Regional Police told that parent that they outrank the parent in making decisions concerning what is in his children's best interests.

The parent was attempting to obtain the video recorded statements of his children done by police after his children had been unlawfully locked up alone for over two hours in the office of the principal at the children's school. The York Regional Police told the parent that they would not charge the school official person responsible and that they had determined that it was in the best interest of the children that he as the parent, not have access to the video in which his children were providing testimony after having a crime committed against them by school officials. The parent wanted to have access to the video not only because it is his right under Freedom of Information Legislation but also because he believes that the York Regional Police conducted a flawed investigation and don't want the parent to be able to view the tape. Parents have obtained similar interview tapes from other police forces in Ontario without problems so why is the York Regional Police not giving this parent the information about his children that he is entitled to as the parent and guardian of his children? Even the children in this case agree that their father should be able to get a copy of their interview.

If the York Regional police have nothing to hide, then why do they not want to release the interview tape? To say that a parent cannot obtain a copy of their own children's disclosure it utterly ridiculous. How is the public trust in the police going to be maintained when police think that they have more authority over children than parents?

Source: Canada Court Watch, October 29, 2009

Addendum: Father Attila Vinczer has fought long and hard for a copy of the police records on his case, with some success.



Attila Vinczer Information and Privacy Commissioner of Ontario issues Order.

INTERIM ORDER MO-2558-I Appeal MA09-402 - York Regional Police Services Board

This order is HUGE in that it is now case law and will enable others to more easily obtain police records of their children who are under the age of 16 and in the lawful custody and care of that custodial parent.

While some may consider this a victory, I see it as a significant step in the administration of Justice ensuring the rights of the public are met and protected. Here is a chronology of events leading up to the Order.

I must stress that nobody should attempt to engage in such endeavours unless they are unequivocally apt to do so for a failed attempt will achieve a negative ruling and will then be used to deny access or a provision for others given whatever the issue may be! It took me about 160 hours of serious work to deal with this matter, 13 months to conclude it and 14 months to get the records I am entitled to.

On September 18, 2009 I made a request for the York Regional Police to furnish me with all information pertaining to an investigation of my children being unlawfully locked up and detained by Principle Stephen Baber of Prince Charles Public School in Newmarket, Ontario. They provided all information while refusing to provide the police video interview of my children.

On November 23, 2009 I submitted a request for the Information and Privacy Commissioner to intervene. The York Regional Police dug in their heels DEEP and refused to cooperate and refused to provide the police video interview of my children, siting that it is not in their best interest for me to possess it, insinuating that I would put the video up on the internet for public display based strictly on speculation. There was absolutely no basis for their claim as my intentions are not only in the best interest of my children, but it is the publics best interest also!

On October 26, 2010 The adjudicator issued the following order;

  1. I order the Police to disclose the videotaped interviews of the appellant's two sons by providing him with a copy of the interviews by November 25, 2010.
  2. I order the Police to exercise its discretion under section 38(b) of the Act and to provide both the appellant and me with an outline of the factors it considered in exercising its discretion by November 16, 2010.
  3. I remain seized of this matter in order to deal with any issues stemming from the exercise of discretion by the Police.
  4. In order to verify compliance with the Order Provision 1, I reserve the right to require the Police to provide to me with a copy of the records disclosed to the appellant, upon request

Anyone that is in need of obtaining police records of their custodial children can use the Interim Order MO-2558-I to be replaced by a Final Order which will probably be MO-2558-F. I will provide the number of that Order and the particulars thereof as soon as I get it.

Source: Facebook

Addendum: Attila Vinczer reports that recording all conversations saved him from jail time and an exorbitant legal bill. YouTube or local copy (mp4).